time only the on the ed show. our continuing coverage will be here on msnbc. politics nation with reverend al sharpton starts right now. welcome to "politics nation." we're following two breaking news stories. just minutes from now we'll get the jury verdict from aurora and the movie shooting trial in aurora. three years ago, james holmes killed 12 people inside a movie theater. he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. also breaking only the, officials identified the alleged shooter in a deadly rampage in tennessee that left four marines dead. officials say it might have been an act of terror. moments ago, we heard from

president obama. >> it is a heart breaking circumstance for these individuals who served our country with great valor to be killed in this fashion. >> but we start with the verdict in colorado. james holmes is charged with killing 12 people and injuring 70 others in 2012. when he stormed into a movie theater in aurora colorado during the midnight showing of "dark knight" firing a hail storm of bullets at random. he is charged with 126 counts including murder attempted murder possession of explosives and what is called a crime of violence charge. he admitted to the massacre with you pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.

and that was the key to this case. >> when mr. holmes stepped into that theater on july 20th 2012 he had lost touch with reality. >> that guy was sane beyond a reasonable doubt and he needs to be held accountable for what he did. >> the verdict will come from 12 jurors. nine women and three men who had been listening to testify for nearly three months. nbc's scott cohen is live outside the courthouse in centennial, colorado. scott, what is the scene there tonight? >> reporter: well, there is a great deal clearly of media that has shown up in the three hours or so since we had gotten news there was a verdict. family members have arrived. they've been here throughout the trial. as you might expect nervous, concerned, wondering what this verdict will be. it is a verdict that they

reached very, very quickly in relative terms. three months of testimony and thousands of exhibits. 165 counts and they deliberated for all of about 12 or 13 hours. before finally informing the court they had reached a verdict. as part of the process of reaching that verdict, they had to fill out some 659 pages of verdict forms. so it could be that they already had the verdict going into today, their second day of deliberations. >> and we're looking at live shots inside the courtroom as we're waiting for the reading of the verdict. scott, please stay with me. now we turn to that other breaking news story only the. the shooting at two military facilities in tennessee, killing four marines. moments ago, president obama spoke from the oval office. >> my main message right now is the deepest sympathies of the

american people to the four marines that have been killed. it is a heart breaking circumstance for these individuals who have served our country with great valor to be killed in this fashion. and although the families are still in the process of being contacted, i want them to know that i speak for the american people in expressing our deepest condolences. >> nbc has learned the shooter was a naturalized u.s. citizen from kuwait named muhammad youssef abdulazeez. in addition to the four dead marines, three people were wounded, including a police officer. the gun may was also shot and killed.

the u.s. attorney said it was being treated it's a an act of domestic terror. >> this is a sad day for the united states. these service members served their country with pride and they have been the victims of these shootings. we are conducting this it's a an act of domestic terrorism. >> but other officials were not as quick to label the shooting. >> we're looking at every possible avenue. terrorism, domestic, international or whether it was a simple criminal act. we have not determined whether it was an act of terrorism or a criminal act. >> joining me now is you know other 18 o'donald former new york police officer and professor at john jay college of criminal justice. and joining on the phone is grant, a former s.w.a.t. team

leader in denver colorado. eugene let me go to you first. how will officials determine if it was an act of domestic terror? >> they're all over this. they're executing xech warrants trying to look at a social media account. there are those who are elliptical. they're going to look at everything about his life his movements. we of course had an event like this in little rock in 2009. and that was at the behest of al qaeda. so it is not a far fetched connection but clearly this is a fact-based investigation. it will be all about looking at his movements. >> i know it is early but does this look like an act of terrorism to you? >> i think the cliche is when you jump out front on these things, you could be wrong and i think that's why the fbi is being extra cautious. it certainly had a all the ear marks of terrorism.

as we're seeing these cases, it is not easy to see the difference between these people being deranged being radicalized, and an act of terrorism. as a criminal matter a charging matter, it would seem to be an act of domestic terrorism almost for sure. >> what do you think of the initial response to this? and the announcement of this? >> well what i'm getting is obviously limited off the tv. it sounds like the police were involved as soon as they could get there and it would involve some kind of gun battle with them. obviously, law enforcement was injured and the gunman was either killed or killed himself. so i can't speak to all the details of the shooting. from what i've seen, it seems like it was appropriate. >> what other motives could police be looking at? >> well, there have been cases in the past where there is a

grievance, some sort of domestic issue, domestic violence issue, a love triangle an angry person. that is a stretch. this is a person who appears to have used an automatic weapon to shoot up a military facility but stranger things have happened than to look deep into somebody's circumstances and find a nonobvious reason why they've been involved. that's what the fbi is for. and again, it always proonlt as an investigative measure. and people are watching there around the world, to stick with the facts. >> we're hearing the shooter was naturalized citizen from kuwait. we know his name. what else are investigators looking for? >> well certainly, like he was saying, they're going to look into his back ground check the e-mails, who he is talking to. his history here exactly what he is involved in. is he isis or just a cowardly

shooter? and then figure out whether it is domestic terror or some kind of isis. >> he drove straight to the navy reserve center. what does this tell but his planning? >> it is deliberate. he mental to do. this i believe this reference is on social media attributable to him or connected to him that suggests he went out to do maximum damage. it is worth noting we had a very hot debate about demilitarization of the police. this shows you how complicated it is. the police are the first line of defense and people have scoffed at the idea that relatively smaller places can be involved. but little rock and chattanooga are not new york city or manhattan. we have to have a civil liberties debate. this underscores the police are first line of defense against domestic terrorism.

>> you were a s.w.a.t. a member of the s.w.a.t. team. what does this tell you about planning? what was his plan, where he started and then going straight at the navy base? >> i believe just like i was involved in columbine and the first s.w.a.t. guy to go in columbine, that was a very well planned one also. even more details than this one. the main thing is that we're getting the police involved. >> excuse me one minute. we have to go live to the courtroom on the verdict in the aurora shooting. the jury has been seated. and the judge is on the bench. let's go to the courtroom now.

>> thank you. >> the jury as you can see now, we're live in the courtroom. the jury is seated. the foreman is preparing to speak. he is going through some paperwork, presumably making sure everything is in order. that he needs to begin the reading of the verdict. we are live in the courtroom to see what the verdict will be in

this case in aurora colorado. i want to bring in our legal panel. ariba martin. >> you've been following this trial closely. less than two days of deliberations. does this tell you anything? >> it tells me it is a conviction. and i'm very disturbed with 166 counts, over 250 witnesses, a 22-hour interrogation or interview, excuse me with all of that how did they come to this conclusion so quickly? one of the four clinicians that interviewed this man, one of them wrote a 122-page report. how did they go through all this evidence so quickly? >> what they have to basically decide paul, is whether or not he was guilty by reason of insanity. because there's no question of his guilt. he is not fighting that.

>> mr. holmes admitted that he sbeenlt the movie theater and shot 12 people and tried to kill 70 others. he said he wanted to kill all 400 but he ran out of bullets. what the jury has to decide -- >> let me stop you. the judge, for those watching this is live in the courtroom. the judge is going through the jury forms now before he reads the verdict out loud in the courtroom. he is examining the jury forms now. >> 600 pages of forms so it will take a while to get through all that. it is a surprisingly quick verdict. the jury has to decide whether he was insane. that means, whether he knew the difference between right and wrong. everyone knows that mr. holmes is a very sick man. he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. but that doesn't mean that under the law, he is insane. what his lawyer his defense lawyer and the experts that he presented say is that his mind was so defective that he didn't

know killing those people was wrong. >> now, the burden of proof in this case was on the prosecutor where it was not that the attorneys for mr. holmes to prove that he was insane. the prosecutor had to prove that he was sane. >> absolutely. just like paul stated, the prosecution had to prove that he recognized and clearly understood the consequences of his actions. and oftentimes people have a hard time understanding the insanity defense. this think if you have a mental illness or defect then you automatically will be not guilty by reason of insanity. that's not what the standard is. that standard of determining whether someone knew right or wrong is very high. only in about 1% of the cases presented does that defense even come up. and in that 1% only 25 are successful. we just saw in boston a very liberal city those cities rejected that insanity defense

put forth by the boston bomber. so it is a very, very difficult defense to put forward. >> it is interesting. the exact language in order to prove insanity, the prosecution has to show holmes was not, quote, incapable of distinguishing right from wrong or quote, suffering a mental disease or defect that prevent him from forming a culpable mental state. so the prosecution has tried to argue a few key points here. they've tried to argue that holmes bought and used firearm methodically. that he surveyed the theater before the attack. that he had intent and that he is not insane. >> right. so they actually tried to point out that the planning and the preparation -- >> one second. he is standing now. they have had them rise for the verdict. >> james egan holmes guilty of

murder in the first degree after deliberations. that's part "a." part "b" is left unmarked. part "c." did the defendant use or possess and threaten to use a deadly weapon. answer. yes. verdict form count two. murder in the first degree after deliberation alexander. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unmarked. part "c" reads, did the defendant use and threaten to use of deadly weapons. yes. verdict form. count three. murder in the first degree after deliberations. jesse childress. we final the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered.

and part "c" is marked yes in response to the question that i mentioned a couple of times already. verdict form count 4. murder in the first degree after deliberation. we the jury find defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. and part "c" is marked yes. verdict form count five. murder in the first degree after deliberation. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. part "c" is answered yes. verdict form count six. murder in the first degree after deliberation. john larrimer. we the jury final the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered.

the answer to part c is yes. verdict form count 7. murder in the first degree after deliberation matthew mcquinn. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer to the question on part "c" is yes. verdict form count eight. murder in the first degree after deliberation mckayla. medek. we find the defendant james holmes guilty after deliberation. part b is left unanswered and the answer to part "c" is yes. verdict form count nine. murder in the first degree. veronica mosher sullivan. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after

deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. the answer to part c is yes. count ten. alex sullivan. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer on part c is yes. verdict form count 11. murder in the first degree after dleb rags. alexander teves. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer on part "c" is yes. verdict form count 12. murder in the first degree after deliberation. rebecca wingel. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of

murder in the first degree after deliberation. part "b" is left unanswered and the answer on part c is yes. verdict form count 13. murder in the first degree extreme indifference jonathan. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer on part "c" is yes. verdict form count 14. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. alexander alexander boik. we final the defense guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered. the answer in part c is yes. verdict form count 15. murder in the third degree. jesse childress. we find the defendant james egan

holmes guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer on part "c" is yes. verdict form count 16. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. gordon cowden. we final the defense james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered and the answer on part c is yes. verdict form count 17. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. jessica gnawi. we find the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "c" is answered yes. verdict form. count 18. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. john larimer. we the jury find the defendant james egan holmes guilty of mur

in the first degree. extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered. and the answer on part "c" is yes. count, verdict form count 19. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. matthew mcquinn. we the jury final the defense james egan holmes guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is left unanswered and the answer in part "c" is yes. verdict form count 20. micaleh medek. we find the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree extreme indifference. verdict form count 21. murder in the first degree extreme indifference. veronica moeser sullivan. we find the defendant guilty of

murder in the first degree extreme indifference. part "b" is unanswered. the answer in part "c" is yes. count 22. murder in the first degree -- >> we are listening as the verdict is being read. it is obvious that he has been found guilty. and that he has been found guilty of first-degree murder with extreme indifference. let's bring our panel back in. let me start with you, paul. as they're reading these voluminous charges. we see where it is going. but the critical part of this will be will they find him guilty where he was in his right mind? or will they go for the defense that he was guilty by reason of insanity. that's what will be critical here.

no surprise that he is being found guilty. >> this verdict of guilty it sounds like on all counts doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. the insanity defense is usually a hail mary pass. it almost never works. one of the people not surprised is the defense attorney. so what they were doing, even during this phase, is kind of teeing up what they're going to say to try to save their client's life. two years ago when the prosecution announced they were going for the death penalty. the defense attorney said we'll plead guilty if you take death off the table. it will be interesting to see what happens now. a lot of am i have about religious about the death penalty. only one person has been executed since 1976. >> and right now, there are three men sitting on death row in colorado. only three men. and i believe one of them has been sitting there since the '90s. so i don't know if he will

actually ever be put to death. and right. their very ambivalent about it. >> there are only three on death row in colorado. but they're not there for this kind of mass shooting and this kind of act. if there was a case that may add to those three or may turn some of the public or some of the members of a jury this may be the case. the prosecutors must feel. >> i agree with you. absolutely. as we sit here and listen to the judge read the jury forms. the gras gravity of the case is revisited on us. we're not even in the courtroom. to the extent there is a case where the death penalty would be warranted and people would be compelled to rentedary decision for the death penalty, this is the case. i go back to that boston bomber case. no one thought the jurors in the state of massachusetts in a city

like boston wouldrender a death penalty. so horrific a crime. as we see this played out, people are becoming very, very sbol rant. i think they want to send a strong message to anyone contemplating this time of horrific crime that there will be dire, the most extreme consequences for such actions. >> let's go back outside the courthouse. can you tell me what happens now after we go through the entire reading of the verdicts. what is the next step and how do we go from there to determining whether or not we're dealing with a death penalty situation. >> the next step will be once they get through all of this and any motions that either side needs to enter as a result of this we will move forward to the penalty phase which is scheduled to begin as of now, on monday. they had a previously scheduled day off tomorrow.

and they talked about particularly the defense, the question of getting their experts lined up during the month of july. some were not going to be available until august. the current schedule is they go into the penalty phase beginning on monday and that phase is expected to take about a month with this same jury. >> all right. let's get ready to go to break. let me repeat that holmes has been found guilty of first-degree murder. we'll be right back after this. hi. hi. hi. hi my name's josh. kelly. my name is raph. steve. my name is anne. tom. brian. krystal. and i am definitely not a robot. i'm one of the real live attorneys you can talk to through legalzoom. whether it's for your business or your personal life, don't let unanswered legal questions hold you up. because we're here. we're here we're here and we've got your back. legalzoom. legal help is here. ♪ ♪ ♪

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we're following breaking news in chattanooga, tennessee, that left four marines dead and three others wounded. back with me now is eugene o'donnell and msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanagh. joining me on the phone is senior analyst at flash point

global partners. what do we know that the shooting? >> well so far authorities have identified him by name as muhammad youssef abdulazeez out of chattanooga, tennessee. we cannot ascertain whether or not this was an isis-inspired attack or not. some have suggested that he might have been, that remains in the air. we don't have much information confirming whether this is linked to any terrorist group or cells operating in the u.s. >> we are told he is a naturalized u.s. citizen but from kuwait. where will that lead investigators in terms of starting to find out what they can about him? >> well first, they have to search in the closest circles

possible. that means friends and family colleagues co-workers and even if he has attended universities and his college school mates. so it is important to search in the closest circles possible. every single forensic evidence will be seized including hard drives and any kind of drive for his computers. see if there is any potential link in this case. >> there is a lot of talk about following social media. how important will that be in this investigation? >> eugene go ahead. >> i think it is important to see linkages. there is a suggestion of a sinister connection. this may not be somebody acting alone. some overseased people were

aware or people who pose as overseas people. and this might not be such a alone individual. if that's the case that's of great concern if there is a network that goes beyond this individual. that is of primary importance. obviously the other thing they're looking for is to try to get a video trail on the guy. presumably there's video available in these facilities and the movements to see whether he surveiled these locations in advance. that's the kind of things they would be looking at. >> i agree with everything eugene said. i think what the investigators will look for is what is the motive? is it extremism? terrorism? internationally inspired terrorism? that would be a major league category to sit on anyone who attacked the military in two places. second. is there another motive? is it revenge? was he refused admittance? it was reported that he had attended the university of

chattanooga for that tennessee so he is an educated fellow. he is not uneducated. some back ground has to be looked at to see what the motive is. there could be any kind of motive. he could want revenge on the military for something that happened to a family member. if it does go back to terrorism, those connections have to be looked at. we have all these twitter accounts. everybody telling everybody to kill. two regardless of the motive of this case we've got as a nation to knock that back. >> given your back ground what are investigators going to be the looking for first? what are the key things they'll zero in on? >> yeah. connections, associates who you're talking to. they're going back to his computer. who is on his e-mail list? who has he been communicating with? talk to his neighbors and friends.

has he ever said anything about hurting people. has he ever spoken a reason to hurt the military. did something happen to him recently? was he fired? did his girlfriend dump him? did everything into a bankruptcy? was there some major event that might have caused him to do this. where did he get his weapons? >> eugene we are only a few hours after the occurrence. but we're not hearing there was a note or anything said verbally as of yet that would give any indication of where they should start looking for a moefive. >> he's right. a motive is not established but we're in a serious situation in this country. this is no longer do we have a domestic problem. we clearly do. we've had a couple in chicago where people are trying to be radicalize asked they're getting as far as new york they're

getting to the erik airport and being stopped heading out of the country. it is far more than just conjecture and crazy ideas. some of them are deadly serious about what they are doing. it is no matter whether these will possibly reoccur. very important important military people and friends and residents and residents in military locations to have the backs of the military where they're gathered in groups. they need to be on high alert and we alongside them. the american public. if we see something at this time it is critical to say something and safe is much better being sorry. >> we don't know anything box they want to see if he is associated with someone who may be involved in some pattern that we don't know? with him being dead now, does that complicate to find out his

friends, his allies if there are any. does it not complicate it that he's not alive and we don't know how they find out if there are associations. some even potential threats. >> exactly. you make a great point there. we have something in the mod earn era we can't have for many years. >> they tell us all kinds of things we couldn't get years ago that people didn't write down. you know a record of your google searches is almost a record of everything you're thinking about. when you have your e-mails, it is a record of everybody you're communicating with your texts, twitter messages your documents that you read. what interests you. all these things can take a picture of a person inside someone's mind that we could never retrieve years ago unless

we could find their writings. so we have that advantage. and it will come to light. and he may even have a manifesto. he may have a suicide note. who knows? >> all of that i'm sure we'll be looking for. let me go by phone to nbc correspondent gabe gutierrez. he is live at the scene of this attack in chattanooga, tennessee. gabe i can see you. good. what's the scene there looking like? >> reporter: hi al. good evening. we're here at the site of the first shooting. this is where the shots rang out. the fbi is now on the scene. they are taking the lead in this investigation trying to figure out what happened. amazingly, no one at this recruising center here was killed. but just seven miles away 10 site of the other shooting four marnls lost their lives. as you were talking about, the

fbi, federal investigators looking at what may have been the motive here. and also people here are remembering the victims. there is a very small makeshift memorial beginning to grow. this is where the gunfire started. 10:35 this morning. witnesses tell us there were several dozen shots. more than 25 shopts before he went seven miles away and continued the shooting rampage. back to you. >> coming up president obama makes history today. the first sitting president to visit a federal prison. he talked personally and passionately about the need to reform our criminal justice system.

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president obama's visit to the prison was part of increasing push with the jits system. he didn't just focus on policies. he sat down with six prisoners, nonviolent drug offenders, and told reporters afterward that they weren't that different from all of us. >> visiting with these six individuals, i've said this before. when they describe their youth and their childhood, these are young people who made mistakes that aren't that different than the mistakes i made and the mistakes that a lot of you guys made. the difference is they did not

have the kinds of support structures, the second chances, the resources that would allow them to survive those mistakes. that's what strikes me. there but for the grace of god. that's something we all have to think about. >> it is a powerful message from a powerful messenger. the president of the united states that humanizing the people behind bars. >> i just took a look at a cell where because of overcrowding typically we might have three people housed in a cell that looks to be, what? 15 by? 9x10. three full grown men in a 9x10 cell. overcrowding is something that has to be addressed.

as i said the other day, gang activity, these have to be addressed. >> these are issues the whole country is thinking about right now. more than 2 million americans are in jail or prison and people all across the political spectrum are realizing that's wrong. a new poll reveals 81% of democrats think it is important to reduce prison populations. 71% of independents agree. and so do 54% of republicans. the country recognizes it is time for a change and this president wants to make that happen. >> this is part of the effort to highlight the difficulties we face with the criminal justice system. many of you heard me speak in philadelphia on tuesday about the fact that the united states accounts for 5% of the world's

population. we account for 25% of the world's inmates. and that represents a huge surge since 1980. a primary driver of this mass incarceration phenomenon is our drug laws are mandatory minimum sentencing around drug laws. and we have to consider whether this is the smartest way for us to both control crime and rehabilitate individuals. >> back with me now, former prosecutor paul butler. how significant was this the president's visit? you're a former federal prosecutor. put into perspective how significant is this? >> this is huge. this is a major step forward toward equal justice under the law. the president made an economic argument that cost $80 billion a year to lock up nonviolent

offenders. what if we spend that on sending kids to school, employment training. texas, the reddest of the red state is the leader in reducing incarceration and keeping its citizens state. most importantly, it is the right thing to do. everybody really does deserve a second chance. as an african-american man, so much resonates for me when he says there but for the grace of god go i. clarence thomas same words. >> i think that's very important. because clarence thomas who is considered one of the most conservative on the supreme court has said there but for the grace of god go i, all the way to all of us considered on the left. 2 million people. and many of them nonviolent drug offenders. we're not talking about harming anybody them made an error and they're serving an inordinate

amount of time. >> and the president recognizes it is a racial issue. when white boys make an error, it doesn't have the same consequences as it does if a white or latino does. i made some mistakes and used some drugs i wish i hadn't but it was a different time. if did he that now, police are super focused on young african-american. he might very well have been in that situation rather than you know, having this great day where i'm proud to call him the president. >> you have to deal with the imaginer to sentencing. you have to deal with when you were a prosecutor black boys white boys latino boys. there is also the problem of the disproportionate amount that come from areas of color. then when he talked about the human side. three grown men in a cell. a 9x11. he was involved in a protest years ago and we had to stay in

a federal prison. for protest. the kind of lack of human consideration. i don't think most americans understand that and in a civilized society, you're talking about maybe for someone with a nonviolent drug abuse or a protest at a federal level, to have to be put in that kind of condition is unthinkable to the average american. >> i think of that quote that you know a civilized society by how it treats its prisoners. for the president of the united states to shine a light on a prison cell. most presidents want to make it tougher, harder for people in prison. this president wants to make it tougher. he understands that's about public safety. and bits families. we have a lot of people in the african-american community who are doing time on the outside. >> thank you for your time. coming up, growing questions on why this be 28-year-old woman

was found dead in a texas jail cell. her family is demanding answers. ♪ ♪ you're only young once. unless you have a subaru. (announcer) the subaru xv crosstrek. symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 34 mpg. love. it's what makes a subaru a subaru.

she changed lanes without using a turn signal. that fanned what the family believes her arrest. we have not verified the video and it does not show the moments that led up to the arrest. >> [ bleep ] . >> officers charged her with assaulting a publicer is vanlt and took her to jail friday night. she was found dead in her cell monday. the medical examiner ruled it was a suicide by hanging. but her family says she was about to start a new job and then demanding answers. >> that's very challenging to

believe based on the sandy that we and everyone that you have seen an outpouring of love from who knew her, truly knew her, truly knew the depths of her, the core of her, that's unfathomable right now. >> back with me now, thank you both for being here. >> her family is heading to texas for answers. what are investigators looking for now? >> well, they want to know more about the cause of death as you've said. this young woman was pulled over for a traffic stop and we heard her on that video saying that she was in distress. and it brought back images of the freddie gray case. we know something similar happened to him as he was being arrested, he could not breathe. he had issues with the way the arrest was being hand. he ended up dead.

the family is concerned that the statements by the police they will have don't believe the police. they think foul play is involved. they want answers them want to know how this woman who had her whole life ahead of her ends up in a jail cell. >> and everyone who knew her said things were going well for her. how will that information be used? >> two ways. either the family can apply for an order by the court to get an independent autopsy performed or they can do one themselves. generally speaking the medical examiner's office is a separate wing. it has nothing to do with the police force whatsoever so it is very suspect that this did occur. that they're saying it is a suicide. >> so the, they can either do an independent, the family autopsy, or ask the court to have someone else do it.

>> absolutely. the family is trying to launch their own investigation. i think there are new allegations about this sheriff that was involved in the arrest. and some allegations that were made against him at a former police department involving racism and anger management. i know the family is also very concerned about who is involve in this case. not just that it is one police department but a police department that has someone leading it that has a history of negative inactions with the african-american community. >> and i know there is a demonstration tomorrow at noon around opening a real independent look at this case. will public pressure here help? >> it always does right? the more people that get involved, the more calls for justice. the police report may have said she hung herself which may have influenced the way the autopsy was conducted. >> thank you both for your time.

catch her on the docket on shift msnbc tuesdays at 11:00. ahead, civil rights outcome john lewis makes a call to restore the voting rights act. next. ♪ ♪ ♪ it took serena williams years to master the two handed backhand. but only one shot to master the chase mobile app. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank.

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is precious to us. ♪ love is strange ♪ so when coverage really counts you can count on nationwide. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ today millions of americans logds on to google and saw this. journalist and civil rights icon honored on what would have been her 153rd birthday. at 22 she was asked to give up her seat to a white man on the train. but she refused. the conductor and two others had to physically move her. that was almost 70 years before the world knew of rosa parks. and the bravery on that bus in alabama. we've come a long way. but have a long way to go.

last night dozens of protesters greeted president obama outside of his hotel in oklahoma city with confederate flags. they say it is their history. but today, a different side of history. civil rights icon john lewis called on the house to restore the voting rights act. >> across the country there is a deliberate systematic attempt to make it harder and more difficult for the disabled students seniors, minority the poor and rural voters to participate in a democratic process. we must not let that happen. we have to throw off the murder of fear and the past and continue to move forward. >> we must continue to move forward. a young man asked me early this morning when it came out about

the klan flags and the confederate that flags at the president's hotel and he said don't you get discouraged. don't you think we're going backwards. there are too many viola plumbers too many teem that i've known and different spheres that keep fighting and keep letting me know. we'll never go back. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we're following breaking news on two big stories. within the past hour, a jury in colorado found james egan holmes guilty of 24 counts of first-degree murder. two counts for each of the 12 victims of the 2012 mass shooting at an aurora movie theater. he had faced a total of 166 charges. you're looking at a live picture from inside that courtroom with